This is from a conversation I had recently with a Prophet.
This could get me into a lot of trouble…
I love trouble…here goes.
I don’t always know that forgiveness and asking the L-rd to restrain judgment on others is always the right course of action.
Let me begin the process of building that one out for you.
Forgiveness is a really good thing for many reasons. But during certain seasons, G-d has been waiting to execute justice that is being miscarried because His children have been told to forgive to the point where they have no will in the matter, and such that they are made into doormats. I don’t think unconditional forgiveness without exception is G-d’s will.
As a huge example, the L-rd many times told Jeremiah to stop praying so that He could finally judge the people.
There are times when our only prayer is to forgive them, when we really should be asking the L-rd if it is His desire to execute justice for the purpose of retribution, because otherwise it is delaying a portion of our calling, or it is delaying His purpose in an area from moving forward.
We need to become experts, not at unconditionally forgiving and asking G-d to forgive people, but at moving with the L-rd, keeping in step with Him, and knowing what His will is, even if that will is something that is not pleasant to our sentiments or our own sanctified viewpoints. We need to become experts at knowing what G-d wants to execute and accomplish in a given season. And because we walk in so much authority with Him, sometimes our prayers asking Him to forgive are keeping Him from moving forward so that He can bring to pass a portion of our calling and birthright. If we are asking Him to forgive someone that is blocking His intended purpose for us from going forward, then His intended purpose will not go forward. If we are asking G-d to pour out his grace and love on an obstacle to His intended plan and purpose, then we are frustrating His grace and His intent.
If we behave like Jeremiah, when it is G-d’s season for executing judgment, then we are just as guilty of resisting His will as Jonah who fought G-d’s intent to forgive Nineveh.
We are not to keep in step with unconditional forgiveness; rather, we are to keep in step with His will for a particular season.
Now, granted, I can see people using this to selfishly curse other people, but that is not the dynamic I am driving at.
There are times when we, in our authority, forgive, and forgive, and forgive, when we should be calling for Father to move in accordance with His will and purposes. That is we should be calling for and agreeing with His desire to execute judgment, especially where there is a real (not perceived) perversion or miscarriage of justice.
If the sins of the Amorites are not yet full, then there is still time for them to repent, but if it is time for the L-rd to judge someone or something or a situation, then we would do well to not stand in the way.
Just some thoughts. What do y’all think?
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. -John 20:23-
Let me throw an addendum here, from a conversation with Alan Champkins and Sam Roberts:
It was suggested that judgment was one of two flavors: criticism or assessment.
Let me throw a third dynamic.
Judgment refers to decision.
Not criticism of an individual.
Not criticism AGAINST someone.
But a decision with respect to an individual.
So, since the OP is an Exhorter, let’s use the three easy illustrations from Scripture that expand what I mean.
And we do at some point move beyond assessment to rendering a decision that does not involve criticism.
Moses, judged the people in Exodus 18. He showed them the laws, and decided.
This is first example of judgment at work.
Second, Solomon judged. He decided between two women with respect to a baby. No criticism of people. Just judgment.
Paul criticized the actions of the Corinthians for failing/refusing, not merely to assess, but also to decide between cases, and because they involved the secular, unredeemed governing authorities in court cases.
We are designed to walk in authority through adjudication of cases when there are disputes.
So, as to assessment, I believe we are shorting ourselves as to what we are designed to walk in.
And three Exhorters illustrated and gave us principles for handling judgment rightly.
And guess what? It was done successfully without the involvement of inflamed emotions.
Now in order to set that up in the local churches, it requires a level of maturity that is not held in large part through trustworthy individuals. But it is possible.
And I will probably post a second blog post that covers this as well.
Thanks for the lively responses.
Cheers!
I agree with you, though I probably frame it a little differently. I work with people on the area of forgiveness and the way I explain it is that in forgiveness we are handing them over to God who is The Righteous Judge and He will handle their case according to His righteousness, justice, mercy, kindness, perfect knowledge of the situation etc. We are also giving God permission to remove the pain in one’s own heart instead of seeking for the punishment of the other person to minister to one’s own heart (since what happens to them can never repair the damage they have done to us). So, I don’t see forgiveness as saving them from repercussions for their actions. Actually, when we forgive, we are giving God freedom to do what He needs to do without us interfering. 1 Peter 2:23
I think a good illustration of this is to look at how God forgives. He extends forgiveness, but it only becomes active in our lives if we receive it. Jesus died on the cross for our sins, but only when we repent and receive the forgiveness offered do we receive the benefit of that forgiveness. In the same way, when we forgive someone, they only receive the benefit of that forgiveness if they choose to. We can pray that God would deliver them or save them from the consequences of their sin, but that is another thing from forgiveness. When we forgive, we release them from our vengeance and release them to God. When we ask God to have mercy on them, we are praying for them. Praying for them and blessing them is an excellent add-on to forgiveness and shows that we really have released them, but it is up to God and their actions as to whether the prayer is effective and the blessing is received. When we bless those who persecute us, we receive back a blessing, 1 Peter 3:9.
Another important point is that forgiveness does not give us permission to do evil. What I mean by this is that I have seen situations where people see “forgiving someone” as the basis to begin lying about what that person did and covering up their evil. I do not think that this is righteous. Even though God forgives us of our sins, He doesn’t lie about our sins. He is honest about how bad our sins are and what it cost His Son, Jesus. When people use God’s command to “forgive” as a basis to then cover up evil, it is usually because they forget about the need for “repentance.” Forgiveness is extended regardless of where the perpetrator of a wrong stands. It is only received by that person if there is repentance. If there is repentance, “honesty” about what happened is no issue. Honesty about what happened actually becomes a part of the testimony of what God has done.
I would add as a caveat that there is also a difference between forgiving evil as I have described above and some of the petty conflicts we have with others just because we don’t synchronize perfectly. Then, forgiveness has more to do with our own sin as opposed to the other person’s sin. If I am annoyed by the way someone else expresses themselves, it is more my problem than theirs and forgiving them is me letting go of my biases (a much different thing than when we are forgiving someone for real evil that has damaged us deeply).
If we have any question as to whether someone’s actions are “evil” designed for our harm, or if there is just a misunderstanding, we can never go wrong by handing them over to God the righteous judge because He knows exactly what is going on and will do what is in accord with His essence. Furthermore, we can never go wrong by blessing them according to God’s design for them, a blessing that will not support them in their evil, but that will call them to be who God made them.
Thank you! I so love this part (plus the rest!) – “we should be calling for Father to move in accordance with His will and purposes.” Lots of this would be covered if we just waited to be in alignment with God’s heart before we pray. I don’t even think we need to say “If it be Your will” – can’t we know His heart?
So thanks for sticking your neck out! No problem for me – in fact, without even considering this topic per se, while choosing to forgive, I use the prayer Arthur suggested – FAther, shine Your Light on (name) forcing them to see what You need them to see, and to be seen as You want them to be seen. In fact I pray that one over myself also Alignment with His heart – love that! I even tell my spirit to align my whole body and soul with God’s original design for me.
And that is more than reaction to your subject.
Thanks!
I may be missing the point but here goes, when i forgive i am not releasing someone from Gods judgement or vengence, my words are like this, God you get vengence or judge the consequece as you so choose, but i release them to you, this is part of my forgivenss process, to release my heart from unforgiveness not to release the other person from Gods judgement, and i do add that if it is something that i know what Gods judgement is according to scripture i will ask mercy for them!
That may be you, but many people will cry out for G-d to show mercy to someone that wronged them.
This post was for them.
Well, Mr. M., this post reflects EXACTLY my current “subject” in “Holy Spirit University.” The Lord with laser-focus has been relentlessly pointing me to not only the Love-Power-Justice connection, but this aspect of His court of justice, and execution of judgment. For me, the timing of this post is amazing.
Not only am I a Mercy, but I grew up under the propaganda of cheap grace. Those ingredients created a recipe overly-abundant with unsanctified sympathy founded on the goal of unconditional (agape) love, always obeying “… as we forgive those who trespass against us” and “forgiving 70 x 7” (but actually more, when tossed about in a perfect storm of decades-long injustice).
Amidst injustices bound to unconditional forgiveness and mercy, the Lord was closer than close and counseling all along; however, I’m baffled in recent days pondering why the Lord is now focusing on MY part in executing justice, while all those years I was waiting and waiting… and waiting… for HIM to execute.
For example, I’m in the middle of an unpleasant legal process I never wanted. I told the Lord, “Oh, Lord, I SO don’t like the legal system. I SO don’t want to go through it….” He said, “Then how about going through Mine?” Okay…. And, oh my…. It’s a real education. And now this post….
He told me how earth’s legal (and religious) systems are not truly justice systems…. So I ponder this topic (because as He leads I have no choice, in the natural realm or the heavenly) of executing judgement and justice in HIS courts first, rightly aligned with His view, because He wants me to grow in this arena. Now, after reading this, I’m looking at how forgiveness relates. I don’t see forgiveness as necessarily blocking necessary judgement. However, now I will consider its relationship to execution very deeply at all angles….
I have seen forgiveness as putting one in God’s hands and out of mine. I have always seen it as “not my place” to decide what “justice” looks like for a perpetrator/abuser-of-justice, or anyone else. I have seen God as the Just Judge, and people having inadequate knowledge to rightly judge, much less affecting how the Lord executes judgement.
In addition, and in contrast, the Lord has made it abundantly clear that, for those who fear the Lord, He desires to grow sons in His ruling and reigning, as son-kings and son-priests, into MUCH greater knowledge and authority than it appears we presently have. This starts, I think, with getting perspectives aligned with His – and forgiveness is among the perspectives in this alignment, after reading this Hammer of the Paraclete.
Daniel saw that “books were open” and “thrones were set up.” I notice the plural “thrones,” not just the one throne on which the Just Judge, the Ancient of Days sits. He wants His own to judge with Him, and to “look at the books” to see the evidence on which to justly and righteously execute judgment.
I’ve seen the concept throughout the Bible, but it’s just “clicking” now. I’m inclined to think it’s a timing issue and that, with the piercing, potent truth you present in this piece, that the TIMING of this post is precise, as the Lord in this season is ramping up His mature-and-maturing sons to execute judgement in the earth, in persons, places, and nations. We must grow in authority, which means humility among other things, WHILE we get our perspective untwisted and rightly aligned with the truth about such things as “forgiveness,” “justice,” and the execution of righteous judgement – executed rightly – so His kingdom can be established on earth.
Semantics can get in the way, earthly words are limiting, and so “forgiveness” probably doesn’t convey what the Lord really means when He commands us to forgive, while He desires to mature us under “the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.”
I believe what you’re saying, and also that God’s sons and daughters don’t know how to do this rightly – YET. I also believe that the time is here and will accelerate in this arena, because if for no other reason, it’s so necessary. I sense the Lord is quite serious about this subject, and that the time is now to learn and grow, for those who will.